Athenian
Do you consider that there is any truth in the ancient tales?...That the world of men has often been destroyed by floods, plagues, and many other things, in such a way that only a small portion of the human race has survived...Come now, let us picture to ourselves one of the many catastrophes,—namely, that which occurred once upon a time through the Deluge. [677b]...That the men who then escaped destruction must have been mostly herdsmen of the hills, scanty embers of the human race preserved somewhere on the mountain-tops...Moreover, men of this kind must necessarily have been unskilled in the arts generally, and especially in such contrivances as men use against one another in cities for purposes of greed and rivalry and all the other villainies which they devise one against another. [677c]...Shall we assume that the cities situated in the plains and near the sea were totally destroyed at the time?
...And shall we say that all implements were lost, and that everything in the way of important arts or inventions that they may have had,—whether concerned with politics or other sciences,— perished at that time? For, supposing that things had remained all that time ordered just as they are now, how, my good sir, could anything new have ever been invented? [677d]
Clinias
Do you mean that these things were unknown to the men of those days for thousands upon thousands of years, and that one or two thousand years ago some of them were revealed to Daedalus, some to Orpheus, some to Palamedes, musical arts to Marsyas and Olympus, lyric to Amphion, and, in short, a vast number of others to other persons—all dating, so to say, from yesterday or the day before?...
Athenian
Shall we, then, state that, at the time when the destruction took place, human affairs were in this position: there was fearful and widespread desolation over a vast tract of land; most of the animals were destroyed, and the few herds of oxen and flocks of goats that happened to survive afforded at the first but scanty sustenance [678a] to their herdsmen?...And as to the matters with which our present discourse is concerned—States and statecraft and legislation,—do we think they could have retained any memory whatsoever, broadly speaking, of such matters?...So from those men, in that situation, there has sprung the whole of our present order—States and constitutions, arts and laws, with a great amount both of evil and of good?--Plato's Laws, Book 3, 677a-678a, translated by R.G. Bury.
The return to Plato was prompted by reading an amazing book (2000) The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times by Adrienne Mayor. (Yeah, what took my so long!) She points out, correctly, that (fossilized) giant bones were a familiar feature of (Mediterranean) antiquity and that this is reflected in the art, religious practices, even museums (musea?), and myths of the period. In addition, she notes that there was widespread recognition these bones reflect pre-human life, and entail that geographic and topographic conditions had vastly changed. These two sentences vastly understate the interest of the book; it also has impressive treatment of ancient (and modern) hoaxes, ancient travel, and philosophy of science, etc.
Alongside awareness of 'giant bones,' this created a popular sense of what we may call deep time. By this I mean (in light of what Moyar says) recognition of (i) the existence of a distant past where (ii) the were now lost/extinguished species that (iii) (perhaps) predated humans and (iv) who may have lived in radically different landscapes. What is a bit less clear is if this sense of deep time implied a running down of the earth (in the past things were bigger and better) [an option she mentions twice, 149/272] or a cyclical conception of nature.
One fascinating claim that Mayor makes is that despite the overwhelming evidence of common knowledge about the existence of 'giant bones,' ancient philosophers have systematically avoided discussing them (with interesting exceptions, including Claudian).* Why this is so is unclear (although she offers useful suggestions). And worth further reflection (in addition to the hypotheses she offers). I think, perhaps, more than she does, that the effect of the existence of 'giant bones' is visible in ancient philosophy. In particular, I would claim that (a) the sense of deep time is visible in some of them, and (b) that this made plausible a cyclical conception of nature, which (c) was not committed to gradual change, but foreshadows something akin to punctuated equilibrium theories. Moyar would agree with parts of (a); is silent on (b); and thinks the philosophers embraced gradualism (on which she cites Plato's Laws [782] as evidence). Here I just focus on Plato.+
Above I quoted a passage from Plato that Mayor mentions, but not really discusses. In context, Plato's Athenian stranger is primarily interested in discussing the origin of political communities from (what we would call) a state of nature (discussed here). The Athenian stranger admits [677a] that what I'll call the manifest image of people involves a regular destruction of the "world of men" by "floods, plagues, and many other catastrophic natural causes. Strikingly, this involves a population reduction of people. [In the Laws, The Athenian does not mention the manifest conception of the gods and gigantomachy. But Plato is aware of the genre, because ironically, in the Sophist a Stranger does introduce agigantomachy (in order to refer to philosophical dispute about non-being.)]
The more scientific/philosophic conception accepts the manifest image to some degree, but adds level of detail to it. In particular, I read the Stranger as embracing an account in which the Earth has experienced frequent catastrophic events that have wiped populations and (memory) their way of living/technology/culture ("all implements were lost, and that everything in the way of important arts or inventions that they may have had...perished") for thousands of years. In addition, while mankind held on, many species were destroyed "most...animals were destroyed"--admittedly the text is ambiguous between there was demographic decline of all existing species, but, as it happens, none of the species were destroyed or most species were destroyed. But it seems pretty clear that Plato here implies that in a deluge land species that were unable to survive on the hills would have been wiped out. (If 'species' is thought anachronistic for Plato, you can insert 'groups'.) So, I would argue that Plato embraces a cyclical conception of history, with not infrequent catastrophic events forcing the clock (of population and civilization growth) to be restarted. (I think this also fits the evidence from other works by him.)
The Stranger does leave open, explicitly so in the later passage [781-2] that refers back to the material I quoted, that humans are eternal (without beginning or end) or that they have existed "an incalculable length of time."** Either way, it is an embrace of deep time. And he goes on to claim that many plants and animals did not exist at various moments in time. He uses that to explain why cannibalism may have originated:
Well then, do we not suppose that all the world over and in all sorts of ways...all sorts of variations in the seasons, during which it is probable that the animals underwent [782b] innumerable changes?...Are we to believe, then, that vines, not previously existing, appeared at a certain stage; and olives, likewise, and the gifts of Demeter and Kore?...And during the period that these fruits were as yet non-existent, must we not suppose that the animals turned, as they do now, to feeding on one another....[782c] The custom of men sacrificing one another is, in fact, one that survives even now among many peoples;
I am unsure why Moyar sees in this a gradualist claim (since the Stranger introduces it with explicit nod back to the material quoted above). The Stranger clearly contemplates not just species change and extinction, but also climate change. That climate change causes changes among the animals does not entail gradualism.
In addition, and I close with this, the Stranger also assumes ecological effects of species extinction on the practices (and demography) of other specie. If a plant or animal disappears this will have effects on the population and (cultural) practices of other animal groups. Species extinction may cause cannibalism in the surviving (predator) groups.
*She does discuss known, lost works that could have discussed 'giant bones' (including work by Theophrastus).
+Moyar is more interested in Aristotle. Given his impact on Christian Europe that makes sense. My focus on Plato here is motivated, in part, in my interest of the role of deep time in Cicero and Seneca.
**It is a bit peculiar to see Stranger claim the former because Plato seems very committed to the idea that all material things perish. (But perhaps the Stranger is here presupposing immortality of human souls, and so forced into embracing eternality of humans.)
Comments